EVE Search - Starbase exploit addressed

All Channels

EVE Information Portal

Starbase exploit addressed

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.10 23:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 10/12/2008 23:35:41 This calls for an utter and complete disclosure of the facts and the evaluated economical impact this exploit had on the game economy. If groups inside the leadership of alliances have conspired to use this exploit, not only their personal assets need to be frozen and eventually seized, but the executors and member corporations assets have to be held accountable in an appropriate and sensible way for any unfair advantage gained knowingly or unknowingly from this exploit. Personally at the moment I feel virtually slapped into my face, yet am trying to apply proper disbelief and skepticism until further information has been released. I applaud CCPs reaction, yet urge them to enage in active crisis management now, before the rumour mill becomes uncontrollable.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:33:00 - [2] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 11/12/2008 01:35:04 Hmm this could be a database glitch that selectively affected Ferrogel of course... Maybe someone could check other markets ? SHC mentions that it looks the same in the Forge. Screenie in the Domain a few minutes ago:
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Originally by: Talsha Talamar Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 11/12/2008 01:35:04 Hmm this could be a database glitch that selectively affected Ferrogel of course... Maybe someone could check other markets ? SHC mentions that it looks the same in the Forge. Screenie in the Domain a few minutes ago: Ferrogel Market in Domain Wow, what is CCP doing?!!? Great Entertainment... I so sincerely hope... It still could be a really really clever and sucessfull market manipulation attempt, someone noticing irregularities in some market statistics maybe attributable to database corruption, reads the "starbase exploit removed" notification and gets ingeniously creative... Kudos, should this prove to be true, btw
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 02:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 11/12/2008 02:42:34 Yep, when I checked Ferrogel in the Domain, I looked at the Fermionic Condensate data and a few other random advanced materials as well, to check for a pattern that would make a database issue likely, yet did not find similar irregularities as with Ferrogel. Else I would not have posted it :)
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 15:05:00 - [5] Thank you for the update. The alliances involved as whole have to be held accountable, they are legal entities in the social and economical context of eve. Assess the economical damage, discard from that sum the value of the personal assets already seized. Assess the assets held by the guilty alliances executors and member corporations. Fine the involved alliances with a percentage of their total assets, that is appropriate with regards to the economical damage done minus already seized assets. Similiar regulation exist in real life and with good reasons. In complex economical contexts the profits a whole has gained, from wrongdoings of a part of it, are not allways precisely assessable.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 15:11:00 - [6] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 11/12/2008 15:16:10 Originally by: Irongut Originally by: Gambuk Why the pearl Harbor reference? I dont think an exploit in a game even comes close to being able to use that. Regardless of how serious it is.. Because Cubba Gooding Jr should have had a bigger part. Btw the world did exist for a few billion years before the USA. Could it be they had another historical event in mind? No surely not, only American history is important. Normally I do not gloat.. but this is just hilarious :) As far as the possible sums involved, a few ballpark figures: 1 Ferrogel Reactor = 5 billion isk/month (output value @20k isk/unit) Lets say those 70 accounts operated averagely one POS: Total Economical Damage per Month = 350 bil/isk Well thats just with 1 POS per account average and ignoring the possible takup of the market, which is difficult to assess since we do not know if only this, or all reactions were exploitable.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 15:17:00 - [7] As far as the possible sums involved, a few ballpark figures: 1 Ferrogel Reactor = 5 billion isk/month (output value @20k isk/unit) Lets say those 70 accounts operated averagely one POS: Total Economical Damage per Month = 350 bil/isk Well thats just with 1 POS per account average and ignoring the possible takup of the market, which is difficult to assess since we do not know if only this, or all reactions were exploitable.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 16:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Gnulpie Nope, sorry not 4 years. Just a couple of weeks. There is no validated information about the time period involved. I am strongly assuming that CCP is still in the process of accumulating and analyzing data to determine this. Well I strongly hope they have to and not had done so before. Speculating on individual alliances or corporations is pointless at the moment. Either the people doing so provide tangible proof or shud up. The same holds true for people posting speculations without showing proper Tags.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Mojo Lux Wow, this thread delivers. So it would appear that some folks tripped over the effects of poorly written code and decided to make mountains of ISK from it. Well after the fact CCP learns of this, not from their own efforts as one might hope, but from a player. You can just picture the sceen at CCP...somewhere in Iceland there was a manager or maybe a director knocking on a VP's door with "Ummm boss, we've got a little problem..." About an hour after that some very senior people at CCP were staring at the walls of their offices, or had their heads in their hands while thinking "OMG, this is going to just suck" or "I wonder if this kind of crap happens to Blizzard?", "I should have been a dentist". This is only going to get better. Time to stock up on popcorn! No.. I assume there will be just a single sentence in that room. Moar Beer ? Just a sidenote, I checked in the quarterly economic newsletter, the average net growth of available money (isk faucets - sinks) in the 3rd quarter of 07 was about 170 billion / isk day, with an average daily trade volume of 2.1 trillion isk. What numbers would merit the statistics & research teams assessment that the "effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching" ? I know .. patience.. but I am to damn curious :)
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.13 07:44:00 - [10] Mr Facilitator, Your rather balant attempts at damage control are mostly based on the same lack of reason and wild speculation, that you implicated in others. Simple Facts: A. CCP made an official News Announcement. B. An exploit concerning Starbases and Advanced Moon material Production was disclosed as fixed. C. The economical effects of the abuse of the exploit have been stated by ccp as "considerable and far reaching" D. With the removal of the exploit CCP states, that "the production of the materials has been cut substantially" E. CCP states clearly that the removel of the exploit, "will also be felt on the market." F. We have concrete numbers about the corporations and account banned as immediate reaction. G. We know that the investigation is still ongoing. H. This announcement is now two day old and no further information has been disclosed.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.13 12:15:00 - [11] Some are trying to play down the situation, likely because their own hands are dirty with past deeds and they fear future prosecutions, Others are trying to foster the panic and speculation, probably because they are invested into the market and the usual few refuse to understand anything since they fail to see the importance of a working economy for EVE. Well then there are the others who wait and talk to try to get a grasp of this, since none of us knows enough facts yet to rationally assess the effects of this incident. In my stomach there is a rather uneasy feeling about the fact that CCP described the graveness of the exploit in no weak terms and still has not disclosed further information on even a basic level, two days after the announcement. Just to repeat a few numbers that I looked up in this context: The monthly trade volume in EVE, based on the 3/07 economic report is about 60 Trillion isk, the amount of total currency is 90 trillion. 10% of Pilots each owned more than 10 billion isk in currency alon. A single POS output of Ferrogel priced at 20k isk/unit based on the market before the crisis had a value of 5 billion isk per month. Which sum would merit the expression of "considerable and far reaching" effects ?
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.13 12:39:00 - [12] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/12/2008 12:41:00 Originally by: Kilhu Emmek This just underscores the contrast between CCP and an experienced, professional MMO publisher. Say what you will about Blizzard, EA, et al, this kind of crap does not go on in their games for four years. The timescale and volume this exploit use had, were not confirmed by any believable source yet. Most MMO games simply lack EVEs complexity and server size, yet if this has gone one for more than a few days, one really had to wonder why there was no automated auditing system in place. Checking the difference of the volume of an item in game between two points in time and flagging any values exceeding a plausibility criteria should not be that difficult technically, right ?
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.15 14:42:00 - [13] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 15/12/2008 14:42:17 Originally by: Karille Originally by: Tasty Bit 71 pages, eh? Nice. Only 125 more till it catches up with the other epic going on atm. But the other thread is way more pointless. Imagine arguing that you're entitled to something for nothing. Using that logic the moon mining exploit was the right way to go. Therefore everyone who complained in that thread and this one at the same time is hereby declared a hypocrite. You fail @ Assertion Logic 101. Imagine a state guarantee a right and then one day suddenly removing it from the constitution, while claiming that it never existed and declaring everyone who made use of it before a criminal. I will not mention what people agreeing to or supporting such a decision should be called.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.20 12:59:00 - [14] Thank you very much for the recenent update. I am looking forward to further reports. Cheers Tal

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.